Comments on: ZKM and the Poverty of (German) Blogging http://networkcultures.org/wpmu/geert/2007/09/16/zkm-and-the-poverty-of-german-blogging/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=zkm-and-the-poverty-of-german-blogging Geert Lovink's blog on the cultural politics of the Internet, media theory and art Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:44:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: oliver gassner http://networkcultures.org/wpmu/geert/2007/09/16/zkm-and-the-poverty-of-german-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-147 oliver gassner Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:44:38 +0000 http://networkcultures.org/wpmu/geert/2007/09/16/zkm-and-the-poverty-of-german-blogging/#comment-147 Hm, I never had the impression that Germany needed more A-Bloggers who showed the \'how to blog\' and that thus more eolple would start. I rather think it is some \'learned\' behavior (KNigge or such) that you are better quiet in public lest you damage your reputation or whatever. As you know there were enough times in Germany, where this was advisable and it seems to have \'seeped in\'. On the other hand there is the media who treat bloggers like zoo animals or junkies or such and write and write about how silly bloggers are. It is really hard to say. I found your idea interesting to put the \'german negativity\' to use in online discussions/dialogue. I\'d be more interested in your ideas on that. I\'d also found it appropriate to voice your concerns on the second day after you had shown your polite side on the first day ;) I also found it strange that Prof. Weibel came down from \'above\' to summarize something he did not or only fleetingly take part in. Next time we could just hand out the abstracts and move on to the discussion right away ;) (and we should have some people from France, the Netherlands, the USA and maybe Japan on the panel ;) ) Hm, I never had the impression that Germany needed more A-Bloggers who showed the \’how to blog\’ and that thus more eolple would start. I rather think it is some \’learned\’ behavior (KNigge or such) that you are better quiet in public lest you damage your reputation or whatever.

As you know there were enough times in Germany, where this was advisable and it seems to have \’seeped in\’.

On the other hand there is the media who treat bloggers like zoo animals or junkies or such and write and write about how silly bloggers are.

It is really hard to say.

I found your idea interesting to put the \’german negativity\’ to use in online discussions/dialogue. I\’d be more interested in your ideas on that.

I\’d also found it appropriate to voice your concerns on the second day after you had shown your polite side on the first day ;) I also found it strange that Prof. Weibel came down from \’above\’ to summarize something he did not or only fleetingly take part in.

Next time we could just hand out the abstracts and move on to the discussion right away ;) (and we should have some people from France, the Netherlands, the USA and maybe Japan on the panel ;) )

]]> By: Jonas http://networkcultures.org/wpmu/geert/2007/09/16/zkm-and-the-poverty-of-german-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-146 Jonas Tue, 18 Sep 2007 18:29:13 +0000 http://networkcultures.org/wpmu/geert/2007/09/16/zkm-and-the-poverty-of-german-blogging/#comment-146 Probably you where trying not to be perceived as an unpleasent guest, otherwise you would have stated your points of critique during the event. On thursday night, when I attended the event, you mentioned the ZKM has been and currently still remains in disregard of major online-topics and left it at that. Also I would habe very much liked a discussion in order to frame the question at hand - each of the lucky 4 on the podium had his or her own translation of the agenda, spanning from hard-core Habemas´ theoretical ideas to a numbers driven report that you gave. I believe the chance for the kick-off event to frame the overall discussion was missed, and poorly so, also due to the sub-par moderation by a clearly technically challenged but somehow interested person with the very very very legacy german public dinosaur broadcaster WDR. Your finding concerning the irrelevant nature of blogs can not surprise students of german lecturer Claus Leggewie with Giessen University, who amongst others stopped praising \"the internets\" as a new digital agora back in 2002 or even earlier and went on to perceive the whole thing as just another channel besides phone, fax or else, that makes communicating, mobilizing (where was THAT during Thursday nite) agenda setting etc just a little more easier or cheaper to achieve - while enabling an endless stream of fringe opinions and agendas to pose between and besides large and legitimate civil society interests. Some perceive this as more democratic - mostly those who emphasize on the input-aspect of democratical processes - others might argue that even the \"Teil-Öffentlichkeiten\" are clogged by too many (but what is \"too\" ?) voices. I tend to lean to the latter position, I also believe that the politically active public is overwhelmed by the total amount of goals, agendas and groups and hence not many groups can align too many followers behind themselves and are therefore ill-legitimized, trying counter that effect with modern shock-marketing à la Greenpeace only delays that effect. To cut it short: the political internet (what about IRC) existed before Radio userland and RSS and ws not so revolutionary before, and nowadays it is marginalized .This holds true only for the case of Germany - other countries like Iran, China or Brazil may produce interesting results, but also not just due to blogs but due to overall exploding internet usage. Next year in the ZKM: please frame your questions - and get yourself some decent host who knows his or her s**t. Probably you where trying not to be perceived as an unpleasent guest, otherwise you would have stated your points of critique during the event. On thursday night, when I attended the event, you mentioned the ZKM has been and currently still remains in disregard of major online-topics and left it at that.
Also I would habe very much liked a discussion in order to frame the question at hand – each of the lucky 4 on the podium had his or her own translation of the agenda, spanning from hard-core Habemas´ theoretical ideas to a numbers driven report that you gave. I believe the chance for the kick-off event to frame the overall discussion was missed, and poorly so, also due to the sub-par moderation by a clearly technically challenged but somehow interested person with the very very very legacy german public dinosaur broadcaster WDR.
Your finding concerning the irrelevant nature of blogs can not surprise students of german lecturer Claus Leggewie with Giessen University, who amongst others stopped praising \”the internets\” as a new digital agora back in 2002 or even earlier and went on to perceive the whole thing as just another channel besides phone, fax or else, that makes communicating, mobilizing (where was THAT during Thursday nite) agenda setting etc just a little more easier or cheaper to achieve – while enabling an endless stream of fringe opinions and agendas to pose between and besides large and legitimate civil society interests. Some perceive this as more democratic – mostly those who emphasize on the input-aspect of democratical processes – others might argue that even the \”Teil-Öffentlichkeiten\” are clogged by too many (but what is \”too\” ?) voices. I tend to lean to the latter position, I also believe that the politically active public is overwhelmed by the total amount of goals, agendas and groups and hence not many groups can align too many followers behind themselves and are therefore ill-legitimized, trying counter that effect with modern shock-marketing à la Greenpeace only delays that effect. To cut it short: the political internet (what about IRC) existed before Radio userland and RSS and ws not so revolutionary before, and nowadays it is marginalized .This holds true only for the case of Germany – other countries like Iran, China or Brazil may produce interesting results, but also not just due to blogs but due to overall exploding internet usage.
Next year in the ZKM: please frame your questions – and get yourself some decent host who knows his or her s**t.

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